Konstantin Roninio is the founder of the ethnopsychological travel club Odysseia (www.odisseia.club), a talented researcher and mystic who has dedicated himself to the study of shamanism in regions where it still exists in its natural form: in remote parts of Siberia, in Mexico, and especially in the Peruvian jungle.
Today we are talking with Konstantin Roninio, the founder of the Traveler’s Club «Odysseia.» For many years, Konstantin has been a guide into the world of shamanism in Latin American countries; the Club specializes in organizing and conducting open shamanic expeditions.
— Konstantin, how did it all start? How did you «get to this point»?
— I’ve always been guided by my research interest, followed my intuition, and engaged only in what I enjoyed. I believe this approach to life is what led me to shamanic ceremonies in Peru. Thanks to the help of my friend Maximilian Erdeli, a unique specialist in this field, I immediately found myself with authentic shamans. I was struck by shamanism in a way I had never been by anything before. And I was equally enchanted by this country: its nature, its culture, and its friendly people.
— Did you go specifically for ayahuasca sessions?
— Yes. The decision to make the first trip to Peru came quickly after meeting and talking with Maximilian at a conference. This gray-haired, bearded man with very calm and kind eyes had a magnetic effect on me and my friends. The sense of harmony emanating from him made us want to go and find out where those miraculous places and practices were that could make a person like him. We were very fortunate to meet Mackie.
— Maybe it wasn’t just luck, but what Jung called synchronicity?
— Sometimes life gives us something in advance or rewards us for merits from past lives, which we don’t remember. Looking back, I realize that only because of meeting Mackie and his assistance in our first journey did I and my friends avoid many serious dangers that people seeking such experiences without good guides often encounter. Mackie introduced us to the primordial pure source, the beautiful mystery that has miraculously survived to this day.
— Sounds like the seed fell on prepared soil…
— Yes, we were ready to understand the immense value of what we encountered. This meeting completely changed our lives. I often feel grateful for this chance and the opportunity to do the work I do now.
— What exactly changed?
— It would be easier to say what didn’t change. I still live on Earth, though on the other side of the globe! I continue to engage in self-discovery and meditation, but everything has become clearer, deeper, more whole. Much of the unnecessary, superficial, and false has gone away. There’s more energy, joy, and creativity now.
— What abilities do shamans possess? Or, better said, what supernatural abilities?
— Shamans possess a set of unique abilities that they deliberately develop over many years of traditional shamanic practice, ancient knowledge passed down through generations, and valuable experience gained in states of deep trance. But they are not superhumans as some people who’ve read too many fairy tales think. They don’t fly, they don’t walk through walls, their physical bodies suffer and die just like everyone else’s. Meeting them on the street, you would never guess they are shamans. They look like ordinary people. The stronger the shaman, the less likely they are to emphasize their status with ritual clothing or objects. Only a very finely tuned and clear-seeing person can recognize them. Such people are very few.
— Ah, well… But they do have certain powers, don’t they? Healing, seeing from a distance, communicating with spirits, possessing ancestral memory, being able to identify with any living form… Did I miss anything?
— Yes, they have such abilities and many more, but they can’t use them all simultaneously every second. Some of their strengths only manifest during shamanic work when they deliberately enter deep trance. When interacting with them, it’s important to understand that they are both ordinary people and shamans at the same time. Some find this difficult. They either idealize the person or judge them for ordinary human behavior. For example, one girl saw a shaman watching television and completely lost faith in him. The next time, she went to a charlatan, but that one completely matched her idea of what a shaman should be.
— How does shamanism understand basic cosmogonic myths, i.e., who is a human being, where did they come from, and why?
— Shamanism is pure practice that is widespread among different peoples. Each of these peoples has its own mythology and cosmology. However, in their practice, shamans go beyond all that. They don’t always share the common beliefs of their people about the origin of the Earth and humans. What they see in shamanic journeys is very difficult to describe. I can only speculate based on my own experience in shamanic ceremonies and conversations with some shamans. I think they see the primal source from which all worlds, including ours, arise. They see how patterns-emissions emerge from this primal source, weaving into different worlds. They also see humans as luminous beings interwoven with many different patterns-emissions. I know that humans also have a creative principle that they can discover within themselves and learn to master. But to say who a human is, where they came from, would be to destroy the mystery of life. One can always give some answer, calm the mind with it, and remain completely ignorant. For me, the search for answers to such questions creates the beauty of existence. People who claim to have fully realized or finally enlightened provoke pity in me. They are trapped. And shamans don’t like to philosophize. They are people of action.
— How does shamanism view the theory of reincarnation? How is this mechanism explained?
— All shamans explain this differently. But in all conversations on such topics, it’s always felt that any model we present is not entirely accurate. I could explain in detail why, but let’s just say that when a person doesn’t know their true nature, they don’t understand what exactly in them can reincarnate. Maybe it’s that part of them that they never discovered within themselves, that they didn’t distinguish from everything else they temporarily possess. I’ve met many people who, during shamanic ceremonies, accessed their past lives. They were convinced that this was the case, and I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of other people’s experiences. But how one interprets the experience largely depends on the point of view they adopt. For me, there is a point from which you don’t see past lives but only one endless life, with no past or future. But if you look from another point, there will be past and future lives. And there’s a point from which you only see one life from birth to death, and everything else is just ideas of the mind, unconfirmed by personal experience. By «point» in this context, I don’t mean a worldview that has formed in a person over years of life and become their belief. I literally mean a point where one’s consciousness can momentarily reside, regardless of the ideas they’ve carried throughout their life. Consciousness can settle in that point or move on, generating a different vision of life and death.
— How is dreaming understood?
— In deep trance, the nature of dreams is much better understood. During one shamanic ceremony, you can find yourself in several of your past dreams and figure out what they are for you, what they carry, what they want to tell you. These are different places in your inner world, which is infinitely vast. We travel through it in our dreams. But usually, people lack the specific kind of attention that allows them to clearly remember these journeys and even more so to consciously direct them. But this can be learned if one has the desire.
— An important part of shamanic ceremonies is taking Ayahuasca. Could you please tell us what it is and what effect it has?
— Ayahuasca ceremonies are very ancient shamanic practices still performed by the remaining shamans in the Amazon. It’s one of the rare direct paths into the depths of our «I» that still exists on Earth. It’s an effective method of self-healing and self-discovery that almost anyone can try to some extent. If a person feels drawn to and ready for such an experience, they can fly to Peru and attend ceremonies with real shamans. I help people realize this intention.
— You mentioned that during the Ayahuasca ceremony, a person faces their fears. What advice can you give to overcome fears?
— There is only one way. First, you need to discover them within yourself, become aware of their presence. In the ceremony, Ayahuasca will help you with this. Then you must confront them face to face. After that, observe them without turning away, study their nature. When you learn to look at them, they lose their power over you. Every fear has its own history of origin. Some stories that will be revealed to you may be very ancient. Don’t expect everything to be revealed all at once; it may require long work. But the method remains the same: you must remain an observer, looking at the fear from the side with clear consciousness, not becoming the fear itself, not drowning in it completely. Being fully inside it makes it impossible to understand its nature and discover how it entered you. Sometimes, not drowning in fear requires great willpower. This is how willpower and individual consciousness develop.
— How do you see the prospects for the development of shamanism as a cultural and spiritual layer?
— The situation with genuine spiritual traditions on Earth in general and with shamanism, in particular, is far from optimistic, despite the numerous «pop esoterics» predicting the dawn of a new era, the blossoming of universal spirituality, mass ascension to the fourth dimension, and other «joys.» Without exception, all the peoples among whom real shamanism has been preserved are now in deep crisis. They are losing their roots, and with that, their culture, traditions, and ancestral knowledge. They are being swallowed up by the hostile influence of civilization. Unfortunately, there are very few genuine shamans left, and most of them are quite old. With few exceptions, almost all shamanic lineages were interrupted in the twentieth century. Traditions are dying.
— Is there any way out of this situation?
— In the last few years, some glimmers of hope have appeared. They are related to the fact that people from civilization are starting to take an interest in authentic shamanism. I want to emphasize that those who are truly interested in genuine shamanism and not just visiting charlatans or playing shamanism in various esoteric circles where they dance and drum constitute a very small part of the overall number of people interested in shamanism. But these seekers have emerged. And with their interest, they are breathing new life into dying traditions. There are still old masters who have once again felt that they are needed and have begun to fully display their shamanic skills. And the younger generation is starting to take notice. Perhaps they will decide to learn this art before the last genuine shamans leave this world.
— You wrote that spirit possession has become the norm for residents of large cities. Could you elaborate?
— You can see it around you yourself. People are consumed by passions, an endless chase for things that have temporary value or are often not needed at all. Relationships become superficial, feelings shallow. People wound each other, and there’s no time to even heal those wounds. Everyone is chasing mirages. In cities, people eat impure food, drink impure water, and breathe polluted air. They are also constantly subjected to informational manipulation through television and other mass programming devices. To feel how much madness is around, you need to spend at least a few days alone in the wilderness. You’ll notice an uncontrollable swarm of thoughts inside that’s hard to stop and foreign voices that we often mistake for our thoughts. This is what I call spirit possession. When a person lives unconsciously under the influence of numerous stereotypes and fears, they have no idea what fills them to the brim and what drives their actions. This is the state in which the overwhelming majority of people find themselves.
— What is your opinion on so-called urban shamanism?
— I think it simply doesn’t exist. All talk of urban shamanism is self-deception. There are many energetic and spiritual practices and simply useful activities that a person can engage in within a city. Of course, most of them are better done outside the city. But nonetheless, in the city, one can practice yoga, qigong, dance, meditate, study psychology, philosophy, and much more. But real shamanism is only possible in the wilderness. For an authentic shaman, the place they are connected to is important. Most often, this is where they were born. All the natural spirits support them there. Nature is much wiser than any of its individual representatives. And humans are just a tiny part of it. Therefore, maintaining a constant connection with wild nature is so crucial for a shaman. In cities, people often play at being shamans. In Siberia, there’s even a term for this — «asphalt shaman.» This is how they refer to fake shamans who live in big cities. After my book «Shamanism: The Bridge Between Worlds» was published, in addition to positive reviews, I received several letters from people offended by my perspective. They were confident in their important shamanic mission. What can I say? If you consider yourself a shaman, go live a simple life in the wild, somewhere in Siberia. Then you’ll find out if you’re ready for this path. And if you’re not, don’t deceive yourself and others. I have great respect for residents of big cities. They are usually the most educated and active people. Many of my friends are from metropolises. Moreover, I know that the fate of our world is largely determined by city dwellers. Including whether the wild nature of the Amazon and other beautiful pristine places still existing on the planet will be preserved. But everyone should do their own work. Shamanism is not a practice you can import into urban life. You can take the experience gained in shamanic practice with you. It will stay with you forever.
— But in the city, for example, can ayahuasca sessions be held?
— The city is not suitable for this at all. It could be a quiet outskirts of a small town in the Amazon, but not a metropolis. And moreover, ceremonies should not be held in other climate zones. The spirit of Ayahuasca manifests its full power only on its native land in the Amazon forests. For example, holding Ayahuasca ceremonies in the mountains is inappropriate. The mountain climate is not suitable for Ayahuasca. There are other traditions that correspond to high altitudes.
— Let’s talk a little about your personal experience. In your book, you write that shamans describe the past of Earth in a way completely different from orthodox science. For instance, shamans believe that civilizations existed on Earth before, equal to ours in development. Have you had such an experience of immersion?
— I can’t speak for all shamans. I haven’t even talked to all of them about this topic. But I have had such visions myself.
— Did you see anything interesting?
— I’ve seen many fragments of humanity’s history and Earth’s previous advanced civilizations, their rise and decline. I’ve seen a lot of information about space and its influence on our planet. But right now, I’m not ready to build a complete picture and write a new vision of history for others. I find it more important to tell people that they themselves have the opportunity to look into such realms and get this kind of information directly.
— You write in your book about beings who appeared to you during your first session and offered to visit other worlds. Have there been any more such contacts (or with other entities)?
— Yes, in my book, I attempted to describe my experience from the first three shamanic ceremonies. It wasn’t easy. I tried very hard. After undergoing a few more ceremonies, I abandoned this idea. By the time I had gone through five ceremonies, I already knew I wouldn’t be able to describe what I encountered there. Currently, I’ve participated in around a thousand ceremonies. The idea of describing this experience in detail never returned to me. Now, I write about the essence of what can be seen there without going into detailed descriptions. How we perceive the contents of our inner world depends on the point from which we view it. You can see many living beings, communicate with them, and receive knowledge from them. There is a point from which everything is seen this way. For me, what matters is the quality of the knowledge I receive. Many of my friends have described their personal experiences from shamanic ceremonies they’ve undergone during our club’s expeditions. Some descriptions are posted on the website www.odisseia.club. There are some very interesting stories there.
— Would you like to share any of your experiences, insights, or realizations during shamanic ceremonies? How has your view of yourself and your place in the world changed after the journey you’ve taken?
— After the first ceremonies, the world as I knew it crumbled before my eyes. The scenery I considered unshakable fell apart, leaving only an all-encompassing mystery. Then I began to rebuild the world anew. I saw more clearly what I should do in this world and how to live in alignment with what was revealed to me. That’s how I live now. On this path, countless transformations occur, but they help me better understand my nature, other people, and the nature of consciousness in general. I have made many friends who have also embarked on this path. Through authentic shamanic practices and ceremonies, they discover their nature, gain deeper self-knowledge and life understanding, and heal both spiritually and physically.
